Go BottomFull subframe needed
 | MEY
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7 Latrobe,Pa 
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2003-10-10 65959
Hi guys. i'm the one who owns the B2410 w/4672a backhoe. Dealer said it required subframe kit,but showed up with what is called a limiter kit,which is what you were describing Mark. Just not quite sure if this is substantial enough. Dealer said full frame only needed on bigger models like L- series. Don't want to break my toy!
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2003-10-11 66004
It's sort of tough to second-guess manufacturers and their engineering designs. If a dealer says it's OK then you sort of have to go with that. There's likely a bunch of engineering design and evaluation behind the recommendation. Myself, I don't understand how steel, which deflects under load, stiffens cast structures that don't deflect but I'm an amateur. Maybe the design idea is something like pre-stressed concrete.
I don't think I'd worry too much about it although breaking things is a part of using equipment. There are no guarantees and a determined or unskilled operator can break most anything. Within manufacturer recommendations, good operating skills and experience are probably the best guarantees against breakage. The natural caution of new owners also is pretty good proof against breakage.
Something you might want to check is if recommendations for relief pressure adjustment are greater for the hoe with sub-frame compared to one using the limiter. Greater relief valve pressure means greater digging power, which might make a good case for a sub-frame. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-10-11 66007
I've never seen a maintained Kubota break with their loader and hoe set-up. I wouldn't worry to much about it but if it is new I do recommend to use it for about ten hours and retighten all bolts which should be done to any machine but I stress to do it to the backhoe assembly and loader mount. Whith the Kubota loader already giving support from the midsection to the rear axle it removes a lot of the troubles of units not having it. ....
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| MEY
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7 Latrobe,Pa
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2003-10-11 66062
Thanks for your response guys ! I'm not a paying member yet,so I didn't get to read your complete comebacks but what I did read definitly helps. I did a lot of reading on here before getting the backhoe for my tractor and was intent on getting a subframe with the hoe. So when mine showed up without one, I wasn't a happy camper. After several phonecalls to the dealer and getting the reply I told you about,I figured that maybe since the tractor itself only weighs in at a little under 1500 lbs., it must not be heavy enough to hurt itself without a subframe. I've only got about 6 hours on it and so far so good. Thanks again, Mark ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-10-12 66069
Guess somebody has to write long posts or there'd be no reason for anybody to contribute. Strange to think that the bumphf I write might encourage paying members though.
A point that might not be visible is that the factory setup for the hoe with sub-frame might spec a higher relief pressure than one without a sub-frame. If true, a hoe with sub-frame would have more potential digging power, but if the hoe supplied does the work required then it's not an issue and there are some downsides to sub-frames.
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-10-12 66075
Mey.. send me your E-mail address. ....
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| MEY
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7 Latrobe,Pa
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2003-10-14 66250
Well,I'm now a paying member , thus I read you guys's replies in full! Is that why you wanted my e-mail address Mark ? Anyway, the hoe has plenty of power. It'll slide the tractor all over the place if I'm not careful, just like the full size stuff I operate at work. Before anyone says anything , I realize this machine is a little different, more fragile, which is why I (or I should say my friend unit5alive) brought up the subject of a subframe to begin with. Another thing that bothers me is that the hoe doesn't sit level with the tractor. It wants to flop left to right because I can't tighten the check chains. Dealer mechanic said I would have to take off limiter tube every time I put hoe on. What a pain that would be!!! Boy, just wondering if I should maybe have gone with a Woods setup and just dealt with possible warranty problems down the road. Sorry if it sounds like I'm whining..... just concerned. Thanks for listening. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-10-14 66257
Rather ironic you say that as the last 2400 with a woods hoe on it had leaky rear axle seals and more from to much weight from a hoe that should never have been sold on that tractor! It was done by a dealer!! ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-10-15 66277
I don't quite have a picture of the mount in my mind. Does it go on the 3ph arms? If so, then using the side leveler and top-link adjustment may level the hoe.
I have a Kelly 3ph mount myself. My anti-sway chains aren't particularly tight but two additional top-links that run from a plate on the draw-bar to either side of the hoe's top link mount stabilize the hitch and also lock down the 3ph. I do have to keep the stabilizers adjusted but the hoe stabilizers also help prevent side to side movement. Digging the loader bucket blade in also improves stability.
If your hitch is similar to mine, adjustment of the mounts and proper pressure on the stabilizers is important to stability. I check the adjustment on mine about every half-hour of operation. Learning to feather the controls to keep a loaded bucket from banging and jerking around and preventing load shocks that can damage the tractor or hoe. Avoiding digging with the hoe stretched out and the bucket extended also reduces stresses on the tractor. That's true for any mount but with a 3ph type, the high curl pressure plus leverage from extended hoe arms travels up the hoe and right onto the top-link bracket. Use of the lowest pin positions on the top-link bracket reduces leverage on the tractor frame.
If yours is a 3ph mount it is very important for the mount to be locked down or the 3ph disabled. It's possible for a hitch to be bumped into lift mode with somebody in the hoe seat. There have been fatalities from operators becoming trapped between the hoe console and the ROPS bar. With my hydraulic hookup, the 3ph is disabled when there's flow to the hoe and the 3ph is locked down as well.
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| MEY
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7 Latrobe,Pa
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2003-10-15 66321
Thanks fo the reply TomG..I'll try to explain the mount. The hoe has a 1" thick x 4" wide x 14" or so long steel plate that attaches to tractor top link with 2 pins (upper & lower) from hoe mainframe; lower link arms ride over top of 2 1/2" diameter steel tube which is attached to hoe mainframe also. Lower link arms are then pinned to hoe mainframe. Itseems pretty strong but unless I get lower link arm check chains tight ,the hoe will flop left to right some. I have to see if I can maybe get them tight before I pin everything....close tolerance at all connections! Thanks for the safety tip... it does stress in hoe manual about keeping lower link arms down in lower position and not to treat it like a full size back hoe.( I run those at work ) Well, I hope this gives you a pretty good idea what it looks & works like. I just realized I left something out...the check chain turnbuckles practically sit right on the limiter's tube ,thus they have to be tightend before pinning everything. Mark ....
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